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Old July 10th, 2013   #1
Rob2m
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Default Help with a seized engine.

Hi guys, straight in at the deep end for me. I have bought an 06 ST1300 that appears to be seized. Unfortunately it ended up being neglected, left outside over winter with one of it's plugs out, the bike is in pretty good condition except it wont' turn over, It free wheels okay but with all the plugs out it still wont turn at all, pressing the starter motor just results in a loud thung, it appears the starter motor tries to turn but with the engine not turning just jams, any ideas on where to start?
Thanks in advance.

Last edited by Rob2m; July 10th, 2013 at 05:40 AM.
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Old July 10th, 2013   #2
Superdirk
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Default Re: Help with a seized engine.

My best guess is that the piston rings are rusted to the cylinder walls. Normally this type of rust is only a thin layer at the surface.

I know this sounds horrible, but I did this succesfully on a seized VW Passat :

Spray some WD40 in the cylinders let it sit for some time, Don't put back the plugs yet. After a while, put it in gear and push it. you can start by gently rocking back and forth to see if she comes loose, and slowly increase the force.

With my old Passat, I pulled it with another car, going 20mph then I just popped the clutch. She came free with a loud pang and horrible smoke from the tailpipe. But she ran just fine for more than 20k before I finally drove her to the wrecker...

Sure hope you can get her running.

Last edited by Superdirk; July 10th, 2013 at 01:36 AM.
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Old July 10th, 2013   #3
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Default Re: Help with a seized engine.

I have always been under the impression that the ST does not have steel cylinder sleeves but uses a aluminum composite material of ceramic and graphite. I don't think the ring will will rust stuck in such a cylinder.

A broken and bunched up at the bottom cam chain will stick a motor.

http://www.honda.com/newsandviews/ar...spx?id=1760-en
5th paragraph.


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Old July 10th, 2013   #4
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Default Re: Help with a seized engine.

It would be a good idea to pull the valve covers and verify cam chains integrity, can timing and valve clearances. An unusually large clearance would indicate a bent / frozen valve that has not returned to it's seat and is instead contacting a piston. Trying to bump the engine over in this scenario will only do more damage. Are any of the cylinders filled with water or fuel? Is the crank case full of water? Either situation could hydraulically lock up the engine.

What do you mean by saying it freewheels OK? If you are referring to the engine turning over driven by the rear wheel but not the starter?
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Old July 10th, 2013   #5
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Default Re: Help with a seized engine.

If only one plug was out, and it sat for a long time....

Did this on a Suzi 750-4 a few years back: Put about a cup of kerosene in each cylinder, let it sit for about a week. Went to the local wood store (we had a small hardware store near), bought a 3' wooden dowel - just small enough to fit into the cylinder. After sitting for the week, cut the dowel into equal lengths, dropped one in each cylinder, and used a small hammer to tap each one in sequence. After about 30 minutes (not getting too ambitious with our hits), it snapped free. Removed all the dowels, spun it hard to blow out whatever kerosene was left, drained the block, and prepped it to ride.

That engine, last I heard, had done over 22K miles with no further internal work being done.

Having said that, the internals of the motor were all confirmed in good condition before we did this process.

Good luck, whatever you try.
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Old July 10th, 2013   #6
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Default Re: Help with a seized engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob2m View Post
Hi guys, straight in at the deep end for me. I have bought an 06 ST1300 that appears to be seized. Unfortunately it ended up being neglected, left outside over winter with one of it's plugs out, the bike is in pretty good condition except it wont' turn over, It free wheels okay but with all the plugs out it still wont turn at all, pressing the starter motor just results in a loud thung, it appears the starter motor tries to turn but with the engine not turning just jams, any ideas on where to start?
Thanks in advance.
Welcome on Rob2m
May be it is because I am French Canadian but the first thing to be eliminate to have a clear diagnostic ,first ,would be the " appears to be seized " You have mentioned

Before a motor can turn there is a lot of other thing involved and it start at the batterry . . . so what was done before the conclusion of a seized engine ?



Daniel
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Old July 10th, 2013   #7
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Default Re: Help with a seized engine.

This sounds like the perfect situation for a used engine cheap on ebay.

Swap the engines now and take the old one apart this winter.

See what you got in the old one and if its good, fix it up and reswap next winter.
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Old July 10th, 2013   #8
maura
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Default Re: Help with a seized engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LEINADEUGAL View Post
Welcome on Rob2m
May be it is because I am French Canadian but the first thing to be eliminate to have a clear diagnostic ,first ,would be the " appears to be seized " You have mentioned

Before a motor can turn there is a lot of other thing involved and it start at the batterry . . . so what was done before the conclusion of a seized engine ?



Daniel
I am with my fellow canuck Daniel.
I would not assume 'seized' because of poor storage.
Go step by step. There are many systems to screw up
Is there good gas being delivered? Is there a hedgehog living in the air cleaner ?
Is there a strong battery or can you use a car battery to turn the engine over, just to see if it will turn over? Step by step my friend.
Good luck.
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Old July 11th, 2013   #9
Rob2m
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Default Re: Help with a seized engine.

Thanks for the replies guys.
By free wheeling, I mean out of gear it rolls on the floor fine proving the final drive is okay.
The cylinders look clean and clear.
The oil in the inspection window looks fine and uncontaminated.
Electrics are fine, there is a good condition Mobatt on it, you can tell listening to the starter motor clunk that there is plenty of power there, it just cant turn it over as its jammed somewhere.
Cutting a long story short the bike was being looked after by a very experienced mechanic friend of mine that tragically passed away last year in a motorcycle accident, the chap who's bike it was had been told by this mechanic that the engine had seized and for some reason that we will never know the mechanic suggested that the alternator was faulty, it was at this stage the bike was left outside, plug out for around a year.
Anyone had experience with an alternator jamming ? Is it a big job to get the alternator off ?
The piston bores have had a fair bit of WD40 and another releasing spray sprayed down for the last fortnight...

Last edited by Rob2m; July 11th, 2013 at 01:49 AM.
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Old July 11th, 2013   #10
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Default Re: Help with a seized engine.

A gear driven alternator would certainly lock it up, at least a failure of the gear drive could. A failure of the alternator itself, unlikely.
Getting the alternator off is not simple, throttle bodies in the way, but the real problem lies within the gear drive, the motor is on the bench rear case off.
The gear drive is also the oil pump drive, by chain.
Before I attacked alternator and related drive components all of which require the engine on the bench I would ensure engine on the bench is required. By this I mean check the upper end mechanical first.
Is there a drive train problem? Bent valve, cam chain, etc. All of this can be looked at with the engine in place.

Autozone, Checker, a lot of these places loan/rent tools today. A couple of phone calls might get you a bore scope at a reasonable rent fee. Basically a camera on a flex shaft that will fit down a spark plug hole for example will also fit in the cam chain tower.

Simply because we have not heard of a alternator drive failure, I think we sure would have heard of one if there was one news like this would spread, I would spend a afternoon looking at everything that could be the cause before I started looking at removing the engine.


I just happen to have in my possession what I believe to be the entire alternator drive system. I just picked up the box it is pure tonnage. These are some stout parts built for the duration.
If needed they are available.

Paul
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