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Lighting Have you added High Intensity Display lights to your ST? Post a description and pictures here.

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Old April 27th, 2014   #21
JZH
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Default Re: Headlight Assembly Removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by zldrider View Post
FOTFLMAO!

Jeff, that is so true. It's the difference between theory and experimentation.

My cutoff is also very sharp. I dare say that it is sharper than the stock H4 lights. And I definitely can see more at night.

The stock lights were pathetically insufficient to the point of being dangerous.

We'll never win the debate that the HID's conversion kits are currently illegal for street usage because, they are.

What I'm arguing is that they are not as harmful or dangerous as some so-called "experts" are claiming IF INSTALLED CORRECTLY.

The other part of this is that the chances of being stopped and cited for this is next to nill. I've actually been stopped for speeding and nothing was mentioned about my lights.

So, I feel pretty safe. Also, I think that HIDs make me more visible during the daytime.

So, JZH, you can continue with your argument on the legality of the HIDs and I won't dispute that you are correct. But, you're not going to convince me to discontinue my lawless ways because I know that it makes me safer.

:-P
As the saying goes, "in theory, there's no difference between theory and practice," however, you are forgetting that my views are based on practice--experimentation informed by further research. As I do not believe in magic, I simply cannot accept at face value the claims of people who reject all information that does not reinforce their self-interested conclusions. I would be very happy to review any objective, scientific testing of an HID conversion kit you might wish to reference--got any?

I have experimented with the exact same headlamp unit you are using (in fact, I have US, UK and German spec ones to play with), and AFAIK, the HID capsules (the glass part) you are using have exactly the same dimensions, so the only non-magical variables are the particular bulb-holding mechanism and the headlamp aim. So all you can do differently is (a) position the light source differently in relation to the reflector and (b) tilt and pan the entire headlight assembly.

The fatal flaw in this design, as I have noted previously, is that the light source you are trying to position within the reflector is of a materially different size and shape (not to mention brightness) than the one the reflector was designed to use. The HID conversion kit manufacturers simply place it in the general position of the incandescent filament it is meant to replace. There is no guarantee that positioning the HID "blob" in the approximate location of the H4 filament will produce the same beam pattern--and indeed, every reason to suspect that it will produce substantial amounts of glare, if you think about how the reflector headlamp system works. That said, there is nothing inherently wrong with using a reflector in conjunction with an HID light source (my wife's old xenon-equipped MINI used a reflector), but the ST1300 one was not designed for this.

However, almost every photograph I have ever seen of an HID conversion displays noticeable above-cut-off glare. Photographs are not the best way of determining if there is glare in a particular conversion, but if you can actually see it in a photo, it's probably even worse in person. With all of the people selling these things, you'd think they could at least attempt to get them tested independently, but this never happens. As a result, there is no objective evidence out there showing that the glare problems are simply the result of "bad installation" or "poor quality components". All we get are hype-laden infomercials and irrelevant underwater demonstrations...

I'm sure you can adjust the headlamp unit down so that there is no glare appearing above the cut-off, and perhaps that's what you have done, but over-illuminating the ground in front of you is hardly an ideal positioning. It's basically a waste of technology with potentially dangerous consequences for your own night vision.

You guys (and by that I mean the HID Kool-Ade drinkers, of course) simply have no answer to this kind of criticism, apart from " I like it" and "nobody ever flashes me". Sure, and all those people complaining about HID glare are complaining about somebody else...

I'm not expecting to convince any of you guys to pull out your HID conversion kits (like I have done), so by all means, carry on if you're happy/oblivious! But I am hoping to counterbalance some of the breathless one-sided praise that usually accompanies any online discussion of someone's new glittery toys. I, too, will carry on (unless I get banned!)

Ciao,
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Old April 27th, 2014   #22
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Default Re: Headlight Assembly Removal

I love bright lights, as a 'yoof' I ran cars that had an enormous amount of illumination , then again I was a service engineer round Northumberland, I still like bright lights but now I don't get the chance to use them, round towns and motorways in the busier world we live in they can be distracting and annoying even to the point of irritating. I don't want to irritate people any more than I want better lighting. For me HID's aren't worth it, if I really wanted better vision a trip to the optician would probably be more beneficial.
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Old April 27th, 2014   #23
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Default Re: Headlight Assembly Removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wjbertrand View Post
I gave up arguing with JZH some time ago. I am happy with my HIDs and they are not causing distracting stray light and glare. I've been running them for 5 years now. The cut off in fact, when viewed against my garage door, is even sharper than the cut off was on my Lexus IS300 which came factory equipped with HIDs.

I commute 46 miles each way on 101 and often come up upon coworkers making the same commute. During winter it's dark both directions. I have asked some of them if my lights are annoying or blinding and none of them have said they were. I have even had non-prompted voluntary comments that although noticeably bright, they were not obnoxious or blinding. I think they are probably noticing the 5000K color temp primarily. This stretch is also heavily patrolled and I've never been given a second look by the CHP, my bike even passed their inspection to be re-titled after it was totaled with the HIDs still installed.

This whole on-going debate reminds me of the joke about the difference between a scientist and an engineer. It goes like this:

A scientist and an engineer are placed at one side of a large room and at the opposite end of the room is the most beautify, sexy naked woman they've ever seen. They are told to move half the distance across the room toward the woman each time the bell is rung. Upon hearing these instructions the scientist immediately declares that the "whole thing is pointless because I will never get there" and proceeds to walk out. The engineer, rubbing his hands together, says "start ringing that bell, I'll get close enough"!
I also gave up arguing with JHZ. I have the same HID setup that you have Jeff and totally agree with you on it`s performance.

As far as the illegal part goes, I have yet to be looked at by a law enforcement officer in any state or province.

One thing you may have noticed with JHZ is that he is very long winded and really doesn't say much.

I think he tries to convince himself or just becomes confused trying to sound intelligent
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Old April 28th, 2014   #24
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Default Re: Headlight Assembly Removal

OK guys - opinions and information about lights please, not opinions about members. It would be nice if you all edited your posts to remove such. Also we do have guests in here and we don't want to give them an unfavourable impression.
Thank you so much.
Dick
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Old April 28th, 2014   #25
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Default Re: Headlight Assembly Removal

Here is what I would like to replace my PIAA 910's with - Clearwater Erica's:

http://www.webbikeworld.com/lights/c...lights-review/
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Old April 28th, 2014   #26
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Default Re: Headlight Assembly Removal

Way nice until the bill lands on your beach. OUCH˛.

Paul
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Old April 28th, 2014   #27
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Default Re: Headlight Assembly Removal

Yeah, they're pretty proud of their products, aren't they?

Wow!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulRB View Post
Way nice until the bill lands on your beach. OUCH˛.

Paul
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Old April 28th, 2014   #28
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Default Re: Headlight Assembly Removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by JZH View Post
As the saying goes, "in theory, there's no difference between theory and practice," however, you are forgetting that my views are based on practice--experimentation informed by further research. As I do not believe in magic, I simply cannot accept at face value the claims of people who reject all information that does not reinforce their self-interested conclusions. I would be very happy to review any objective, scientific testing of an HID conversion kit you might wish to reference--got any?

I have experimented with the exact same headlamp unit you are using (in fact, I have US, UK and German spec ones to play with), and AFAIK, the HID capsules (the glass part) you are using have exactly the same dimensions, so the only non-magical variables are the particular bulb-holding mechanism and the headlamp aim. So all you can do differently is (a) position the light source differently in relation to the reflector and (b) tilt and pan the entire headlight assembly.

The fatal flaw in this design, as I have noted previously, is that the light source you are trying to position within the reflector is of a materially different size and shape (not to mention brightness) than the one the reflector was designed to use. The HID conversion kit manufacturers simply place it in the general position of the incandescent filament it is meant to replace. There is no guarantee that positioning the HID "blob" in the approximate location of the H4 filament will produce the same beam pattern--and indeed, every reason to suspect that it will produce substantial amounts of glare, if you think about how the reflector headlamp system works. That said, there is nothing inherently wrong with using a reflector in conjunction with an HID light source (my wife's old xenon-equipped MINI used a reflector), but the ST1300 one was not designed for this.

However, almost every photograph I have ever seen of an HID conversion displays noticeable above-cut-off glare. Photographs are not the best way of determining if there is glare in a particular conversion, but if you can actually see it in a photo, it's probably even worse in person. With all of the people selling these things, you'd think they could at least attempt to get them tested independently, but this never happens. As a result, there is no objective evidence out there showing that the glare problems are simply the result of "bad installation" or "poor quality components". All we get are hype-laden infomercials and irrelevant underwater demonstrations...

I'm sure you can adjust the headlamp unit down so that there is no glare appearing above the cut-off, and perhaps that's what you have done, but over-illuminating the ground in front of you is hardly an ideal positioning. It's basically a waste of technology with potentially dangerous consequences for your own night vision.

You guys (and by that I mean the HID Kool-Ade drinkers, of course) simply have no answer to this kind of criticism, apart from " I like it" and "nobody ever flashes me". Sure, and all those people complaining about HID glare are complaining about somebody else...

I'm not expecting to convince any of you guys to pull out your HID conversion kits (like I have done), so by all means, carry on if you're happy/oblivious! But I am hoping to counterbalance some of the breathless one-sided praise that usually accompanies any online discussion of someone's new glittery toys. I, too, will carry on (unless I get banned!)

Ciao,
Somehow I do not believe that any data I could produce would be acceptable to you, so you'll just have to take my word for it about the sharp cut off compared to my OEM HID equipped Lexus. Alternatively, perhaps Lexus did not consult you before designing their system. I do take offense being referred to as oblivious and a cool aid drinker. I consider comments like that to be reserved for one who's run out of anything substantive to say.
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Old April 29th, 2014   #29
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Default Re: Headlight Assembly Removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by DickPeake View Post
OK guys - opinions and information about lights please, not opinions about members. It would be nice if you all edited your posts to remove such. Also we do have guests in here and we don't want to give them an unfavourable impression.
Thank you so much.
Dick
As a newbie here I don't see anything wrong with the content of this thread, The comments posted show some historical content regarding ability to argue a point, or unbending points of view but IMHO it adds to the content and value of the opinions and information here.
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Old April 29th, 2014   #30
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Default Re: Headlight Assembly Removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wjbertrand View Post
Somehow I do not believe that any data I could produce would be acceptable to you, so you'll just have to take my word for it about the sharp cut off compared to my OEM HID equipped Lexus. Alternatively, perhaps Lexus did not consult you before designing their system. I do take offense being referred to as oblivious and a cool aid drinker. I consider comments like that to be reserved for one who's run out of anything substantive to say.
Most US-spec OEM xenons use fresnelised lenses, which fuzz-up the beam edges, though many people who retrofit OEM xenon projectors replace the lenses with clear ones in order to get a sharp cut-off. However, I would not expect an OEM Lexus projector to exhibit any glare or scatter above the (fuzzy) cut-off at all (nor would there be any physical reason for any to have been produced by that kind of design).

(Btw, I'm deeply offended that you refuse to use the correct brand name for my favourite childhood drink. I demand an apology. )

I wonder if Garry's Futurvisions are like the ones they've pictured on their website? Notice anything strange about them?



No front shield. It is an "interesting" design when the HID light source is actually visible to the naked eye when installed in a reflector headlamp unit. I wonder if that bothers anyone. I wonder if looking at a welding arc bothers anyone? Nah...

Here's a good pic of my ST1300, taken several years ago when I was running one HID and one French Yellow H4. The camera was just above the cut-off. Nice, huh?

I should mention that this was my UK-spec headlamp unit, so both bulb bases were perfectly aligned using all three of each H4's locating tabs. Carefully snipping off or bending back two of them (common practice when installing regular H4s into US-spec Honda headlamp units) would likely have resulted in the bulbs canting slightly upwards within the housing, thus lowering the beam.
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