ST1300.us.com  

Go Back   ST1300.us.com > Other > Off Topic

Off Topic If it is not ST1300 related, put it here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old January 8th, 2017   #1
PaulRB
The Grouch
 
PaulRB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southwest U.S.
Posts: 2,861
Rep Power: 91 PaulRB has a spectacular aura aboutPaulRB has a spectacular aura aboutPaulRB has a spectacular aura about
Default Moto2 - Triumph to be engine supplier

Although no formal signed document has been delivered it is being reported by those in-the-know the Triumph will become the official engine supplier for Moto2 beginning with the 2019 season.

Honda had extended it's contractual obligation through the 2018 season but it's announced ending of middleweight sport bike production, CBR600RR, started the hunt for a new engine supplier.
Kawasaki, MV Agusta, and Triumph responded and from the start Triumph look to be the serious choice.

The new engine is said to be a 765cc Triple based on Triumphs 675R engine, the 765 is not in production as now and will not be ready for testing until the 2018 season.

A few issues will need to be addressed by Triumph and whoever the official issuer of the engines will be.
First - The 675R engine while quick in race trim suffers from reliability issues. Engine explosions are strictly forbidden and fined in GP racing.
Second - Motor Mounts. Hanging the engine in the frame with cylinder head mounts will give chassis builders fits. There is a degree of "flex" built into the chassis and loosing the upper frame rails to engine mounts could be a serious problem.
Seeing as though the the 765 is not in production yet both these problems can be addressed at the engineering level.


It looks as if the dream of a 250cc single Moto3, 500cc twin Moto2, 1000cc four MotoGP has been dealt the death knell.
Who's good with calculators?
Does a 3 cylinder engine with a 81mm bore come out to 765cc's?
Plug in stroke until it does.
A 81mm bore limit would force a long stroke 3 cylinder.
Keep a close eye of piston speed.
Seriously expensive exotic metals will be needed for pistons and rods.
So goes the cost limits Dorna claims to love.


Paul
__________________
STOC 3499
Overkill is a often underrated achievement.
PaulRB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 8th, 2017   #2
Wjbertrand
ST guru
 
Wjbertrand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Ventura, California
Posts: 1,850
Rep Power: 128 Wjbertrand will become famous soon enough
Default

To answer the displacement question one needs to know the stroke as well as the bore.

Engine displacement = 3.14 x radius^2 of the bore (on this case 40.5mm) x stroke x the number of cylinders


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
-Jeff-
Ventura, CA
STOC 025
2005 ST1300A
2015 ST1200

The original ST1100 LiST is at www.st-riders.net

Last edited by Wjbertrand; January 9th, 2017 at 09:29 AM.
Wjbertrand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 8th, 2017   #3
roginoz
Senior Member
 
roginoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 114
Rep Power: 0 roginoz can only hope to improve
Default Re: Moto2 - Triumph to be engine supplier

Have I been and missed something? Honda's getting out of the 600 market?
Or just supersport racing?

Paul: are you registered over at ST-Riders? I enjoy your insights on racing, and also appreciate the technical comments you've provided; hate to lose a resource...

And, what's with these automatic emojis that I didn't place in my post?
__________________
Roger Smith
'05 ST1300
'12 XR1200X
'09 KLR650
'73 CL350
roginoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 8th, 2017   #4
PaulRB
The Grouch
 
PaulRB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southwest U.S.
Posts: 2,861
Rep Power: 91 PaulRB has a spectacular aura aboutPaulRB has a spectacular aura aboutPaulRB has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Moto2 - Triumph to be engine supplier

Quote:
Originally Posted by roginoz View Post
Have I been and missed something? Honda's getting out of the 600 market?
Or just supersport racing?

Paul: are you registered over at ST-Riders? I enjoy your insights on racing, and also appreciate the technical comments you've provided; hate to lose a resource...

And, what's with these automatic emojis that I didn't place in my post?

I am on ST-Riders.

The emojis show up when you type their name.
I think you can turn that off.

Honda out of the 600cc market?
Looks that way and they will have company from about everybody.
300cc singles & 500cc twins looks to be where the manufactures are or are rapidly headed.
The CBR300RR in Repsol trim looks neat.
Welcome to the global market.
We could see and have from a few the return of 750's.
Retro 80's is upon us in the U.S..
Attached Images
File Type: jpg repsol honda cbr300.jpg (64.6 KB, 38 views)
__________________
STOC 3499
Overkill is a often underrated achievement.

Last edited by PaulRB; January 8th, 2017 at 03:33 PM.
PaulRB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2017   #5
ibike2havefun
Senior Member
 
ibike2havefun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 318
Rep Power: 0 ibike2havefun can only hope to improve
Default Re: Moto2 - Triumph to be engine supplier

Does a stroke of 12.38mm make sense? If I have the math right (and that is a BIG "if" any more)

765cc = 765,000 mm^3

765,000 / (3 x 3.14 x 81^2) = 12.37772 mm stroke. These things won't reciprocate, they'll vibrate.
__________________
-= Keith Adams =-
Rockville, MD, USA
STOC # 8824. Embarrassingly high but it's mine.
Now to try to wear it out.

ibike2havefun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2017   #6
PaulRB
The Grouch
 
PaulRB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southwest U.S.
Posts: 2,861
Rep Power: 91 PaulRB has a spectacular aura aboutPaulRB has a spectacular aura aboutPaulRB has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Moto2 - Triumph to be engine supplier

49.5mm = 765cc

http://www.revetec.com/Calculators/E...lculator-2.htm


Paul
__________________
STOC 3499
Overkill is a often underrated achievement.
PaulRB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2017   #7
PaulRB
The Grouch
 
PaulRB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southwest U.S.
Posts: 2,861
Rep Power: 91 PaulRB has a spectacular aura aboutPaulRB has a spectacular aura aboutPaulRB has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Moto2 - Triumph to be engine supplier

Reading Comprehension skills, on my part, may be in play here.
49.5mm is not what I'd call a long stroke.
In stock trim
CBR 250 is 76mm bore x 55mm stroke
CBR 300 is 76mm bore x 63mm stroke
The 2006-2012 Triumph 675 is 74mm bore x 52.3mm stroke
The 2013-2016 Triumph 675 is 76mm bore x 49.6mm stroke

Paul
__________________
STOC 3499
Overkill is a often underrated achievement.
PaulRB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2017   #8
Wjbertrand
ST guru
 
Wjbertrand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Ventura, California
Posts: 1,850
Rep Power: 128 Wjbertrand will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Moto2 - Triumph to be engine supplier

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibike2havefun View Post
Does a stroke of 12.38mm make sense? If I have the math right (and that is a BIG "if" any more)

765cc = 765,000 mm^3

765,000 / (3 x 3.14 x 81^2) = 12.37772 mm stroke. These things won't reciprocate, they'll vibrate.
You have to use the radius of the bore in the calculation, not the diameter. Also watch the units!

Solve for stroke: (where S= Stroke and 250cc represents one of three cylinders)

250cc = 3.14 x 4.05cm^2 x S

250cc = 51.53cm^2 x S

250cc/51.53cm^2 = 4.85 cm or a 48.5mm stroke

So a 750cc triple restrained to an 81mm bore will give short stroke engine but not radically so. (1.67 B:S ratio)
__________________
-Jeff-
Ventura, CA
STOC 025
2005 ST1300A
2015 ST1200

The original ST1100 LiST is at www.st-riders.net

Last edited by Wjbertrand; January 9th, 2017 at 09:47 AM.
Wjbertrand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2017   #9
ibike2havefun
Senior Member
 
ibike2havefun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 318
Rep Power: 0 ibike2havefun can only hope to improve
Default Re: Moto2 - Triumph to be engine supplier

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wjbertrand View Post
You have to use the radius of the bore in the calculation, not the diameter.
Doh! Of course. Thanks for the correction.
__________________
-= Keith Adams =-
Rockville, MD, USA
STOC # 8824. Embarrassingly high but it's mine.
Now to try to wear it out.

ibike2havefun is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2011 ST1300.US.COM