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Old February 24th, 2014   #1
Dan55
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Default Brakes dragging - Possibles causes?

The question:
What is the cause of brakes that are dragging on a ST?

The story:
Went to the Honda dealer to change tires very late in the season, they had a good deal. I asked them also to change brake pads while they were working on the bike. They were close to the safe limits so that was done and I was confident it was made by experts. Asked them if they knew about the specific procedure/sequence to re-install the front wheel; the guy told me not to be worry, almost all Hondas have that characteristic and they are aware…

Out of the dealer I noticed on my way back home some brake dragging (I could feel and hear some whine when close to a stop) and the disks were somewhat hot when I got home. Called the dealer and he said this could happen with newly installed brake pads. I understood it is possible that some setting occurs in this case.

OK but I thought maybe they left the extra brake fluid as the pads are worn out and it can cause the problem. So I checked it and in fact, there was some extra fluid in the master cylinder. I used a syringe to remove it and while doing this, I had a feeling that this was not the source of the problem.

Went for a short ride and noticed a slight improvement but not a solved problem. This happened on a Sunday (dealer closed) and it turned out that it was the last day I could ride a motorcycle; winter had just arrived.

So I know I will be stuck with this problem as soon as I can ride again. I’m not sure I want to go to the dealer (15 km ride) and if I go I don’t want to be treated like an ignorant. So, back to the question…
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Old February 24th, 2014   #2
PaulRB
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Default Re: Brakes dragging - Possibles causes?

One thing you can check with little fuss is the pistons in the rear caliper.
They should so some sign they were cleaned.

When the new pads were installed the pistons would have needed to be pushed back into the calipers due to the wear on the pads.
Road grime on the pistons can restrict their movement back if they were not cleaned.
The "o rings" that seal the pistons are square edged. The piston movement will deform the o-ring and once the brake is released they will return to their square shape. You can't see this it is inside the caliper.
There will be very little, very little drag on the brake rotor is the pistons are returning properly.

Without removing the brake caliper you should be able to see a clean rear piston on the outside rear where it contacts the pad. If this is not clean it can be assumed the other two are dirty as well.

If you want to clean the pistons.
Pull the axle out far enough to clear the caliper.
Remove the caliper holding bolt.
Remove the pad.
Use a small brush to clean all around all three pistons.
Clean the pins that hold the pads.
Reinstall the pads and put a small wipe of brake caliper grease on the pins, very small amount.
Reinstall it all and re-torque everything.
That should allow the wheel to spin freely.

The rear caliper is particularly susceptible to this.

If it is not in the rear wheel the Secondary Master Cylinder can cause the rear wheel to drag.
It seems unlikely simply replacing the pads would would cause front piston to become sticky but it could happen for the same reason as above.
Ensure that the front wheel spins freely.

Paul

Last edited by PaulRB; February 24th, 2014 at 06:18 PM.
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Old February 24th, 2014   #3
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Default Re: Brakes dragging - Possibles causes?

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Ensure that the front wheel spins freely.
Thanks Paul. FYI, all 3 discs were somewhat warm meaning dragging occurs everywhere.

Dan
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Old February 24th, 2014   #4
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Default Re: Brakes dragging - Possibles causes?

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Originally Posted by PaulRB View Post
If it is not in the rear wheel the Secondary Master Cylinder can cause the rear wheel to drag.
Is the reverse situation possible? i.e. because of the linked brakes, the rear dragging would affect the front?
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Old February 24th, 2014   #5
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Default Re: Brakes dragging - Possibles causes?

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Is the reverse situation possible? i.e. because of the linked brakes, the rear dragging would affect the front?
That's a interesting question. I don't think we have put much thought into the system running backward.
I think it would actually need to be applied. Simply dragging the rear without actual pressure at the pedal should not affect the front.

Front lever - Both outer on both front calipers directly, and rear outer indirectly via SMC/PCV. (Secondary Master Cylinder/Proportioning Control Valve)
Rear pedal - Rear center directly, front center directly via delay, and rear outer indirectly via SMC/PCV.

Warm disks with new pads.
Warm would not concern me as much as hot.
These disks get warm in a big hurry slowing/stopping 360kg.
Lick your finger and touch the disk.
If it sizzles that's hot. That needs attention.

Paul
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Old February 25th, 2014   #6
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Default Re: Brakes dragging - Possibles causes?

The pads only release from the discs a very minute amount. If new pads are on old rotors it will take a few miles for them to bed in, they grab onto the discs but not in the disc grooves or the pads may ride at slight angles, this gives a slight binding effect and hence the warmth, If you have only done 15 Km on them then I suspect there is no issue, just them bedding in.

As Paul says warm's okay, hissing hot isn't!

How many miles on the bike, ie are the rotors worn?
Have you ever felt your brake discs before this question arose?
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Old February 25th, 2014   #7
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Default Re: Brakes dragging - Possibles causes?

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Originally Posted by Rob2m View Post
If you have only done 15 Km on them then I suspect there is no issue, just them bedding in.
I've done over 100 km on that Sunday monitoring the brakes; they were still dragging.

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Originally Posted by Rob2m View Post
How many miles on the bike, ie are the rotors worn?
39000 kms. Rotors looks OK.

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Originally Posted by Rob2m View Post
Have you ever felt your brake discs before this question arose?
No if you mean some scratchy feeling when braking.
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Old February 25th, 2014   #8
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Default Re: Brakes dragging - Possibles causes?

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No if you mean some scratchy feeling when braking.
No, I meant were you aware of how warm they would have run prior to the pads being changed.
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Old February 25th, 2014   #9
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Default Re: Brakes dragging - Possibles causes?

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No, I meant were you aware of how warm they would have run prior to the pads being changed.
There was no dragging at all so they were not hot.
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Old February 26th, 2014   #10
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Default Re: Brakes dragging - Possibles causes?

Dan, like Paul said . . . take a good look at those caliper pistons ,if they are dirty ,the problem come from there and the cause is often the " one " or the mecanic , that did the job :-(

Paul , also gave You a verry good description on " how " to clean those pistons before getting the pistons back in for the installation of a set of new pads , but it is possible that some dirt went in a little deeper inside the square "O" ring ,if the mecanic did not clean at all the pistons before pushing them back in . . . then it migth need to get all of those pistons out a little bit , to clean them corectly , before pushing them back in again ,in order to completely get reed of the problem .
Call me if You need more details . . .

Not the firST time I saw or eard of this problem and his cause on ST .If, You can not fix it Yourself or , get it fix for free by them (Dealer and his mecanic that did the job ). . . well,before You spend any more money at a Dealer where one of the mecanic probably caused the problem by not doing the job properly , make my place one of Your first ride destination of the season and I will inspect and check the proper operation of the " Dual CBS " brake system operation on Your ST . . . http://world.honda.com/motorcycle-te...ake/p5.html#01 . . . and fix it free for You if it is only some dirt in the pistons

Daniel

Last edited by LEINADEUGAL; February 26th, 2014 at 10:16 AM.
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