ST1300.us.com  

Go Back   ST1300.us.com > Honda ST1300 Forums > Maintenance & Repair > Brakes

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old October 22nd, 2016   #11
Rob2m
Loquacious Member
 
Rob2m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hull UK
Posts: 751
Rep Power: 58 Rob2m will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Read What Valvoline Says About Storing Brake Fluid

Quote:
Originally Posted by echo View Post

Now if youre RACING motorcycles the brake fluid is going to get a lot hotter than 100c. You MIGHT have a problem there but Id have too see the math with actual figures before conceding that.
I have had a rear brake boil, and not by racing. It was fekking frightening.
Ligito had his rear brake on fire.

Higher spec bikes use Dot 5.1 as it has a higher boiling point, but it is more hygroscopic so needs changing more often.

I'd put whatever you want in, if you ever actually did or need to again, You wont convince the majority that it's fine to do so, they don't really care about saving 50 cents on a ten grand machine.
__________________
"Today’s ride will remind me forever how good it is to be a motorcyclist, how good it is to be alive and how much we need to live life, rather than watch it pass us by." Green VFR. 1970-2012
Rob2m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22nd, 2016   #12
echo
The sky is falling...
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 3,584
Rep Power: 112 echo is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Read What Valvoline Says About Storing Brake Fluid

Silicone based. That what BMW went to to to replace the glycol based brake fluid everyone else uses.
__________________
The Sky Is Falling?

Nope its more like:

Look! The Emperor has no clothes!
echo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22nd, 2016   #13
Redfish
Donators
 
Redfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Prairieville, Louisiana
Posts: 2,770
Rep Power: 107 Redfish is a jewel in the roughRedfish is a jewel in the roughRedfish is a jewel in the rough
Default Re: Read What Valvoline Says About Storing Brake Fluid

Each to his own. You guys can argue this until your keyboards melt and none of you will change your minds. Useless really.

My Opinion:
Tires are the most important part of the bike because EVERYTHING rides on how they perform.

Brakes are the second most important part of the bike. That makes brakes extremely important.

I can afford a fresh new bottle of brake fluid every time I need it. It only costs a few dollars. If I get so broke that I cannot afford a new, unopened bottle of fluid the once a year that I need it, the damned bike can stay parked until I can.

I am not going to argue with somebody over a few pennies worth of stupidity that they want to do to THEIR bike. If they try to put it in MY bike, that is a different story. My motorcycle and every motorcycle that I am responsible for gets a brand new bottle.

I have been known to use "leftovers" in some of the four wheeler ATV brake systems but only as a flush mechanism after they have been submerged.

Do what you want to YOUR bike. Do not presume to tell me what to do with mine.
__________________
Never run out of traction, ideas and real estate all at the same time.
Redfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22nd, 2016   #14
Wjbertrand
ST guru
 
Wjbertrand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Ventura, California
Posts: 1,840
Rep Power: 126 Wjbertrand will become famous soon enough
Default Read What Valvoline Says About Storing Brake Fluid

Quote:
Originally Posted by echo View Post
But its not .8 grams. Thats per liter of air. Since theres only 25cc of air in the opened bottle of brake fluid you have to divide 25cc by 1000cc and multiply by .8 gram. Which means theres only .02 grams of water in there, not .8.

And the entire contents of the braking system arent going to be heated to 100 C, just the much smaller amount in the calipers.

Now if youre RACING motorcycles the brake fluid is going to get a lot hotter than 100c. You MIGHT have a problem there but Id have too see the math with actual figures before conceding that.

And you have to start with....what temperature is the brake fluid at the caliper at and how much is a thousandth of an ounce of water going to expand at those temps.

But wait! A thousandth of an ounce is water is whats in the ENTIRE system. Which isnt going to be at caliper temperature. The actual volume of water vapor at caliper temperature is much less than that.

This is probably why the idiot engineers at BMW have gone to mineral oil based (or whatever it is) brake fluid maybe 15 years ago. That cant absorb water. This is a solution in search of a problem which doesnt exist. (except at extreme limits of operation) As far as I know no other manufacturer has gone to that.


Do the math and read it again echo. I used your 0.0009 oz number for the content inside the system.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
-Jeff-
Ventura, CA
STOC 025
2005 ST1300A
2015 ST1200

The original ST1100 LiST is at www.st-riders.net

Last edited by Wjbertrand; October 22nd, 2016 at 09:03 AM.
Wjbertrand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22nd, 2016   #15
echo
The sky is falling...
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 3,584
Rep Power: 112 echo is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Read What Valvoline Says About Storing Brake Fluid

According to Wikipedia once water gets into brake fluid it doesn't act like water anymore when heated. The water and brake fluid together act like a fluid different from either one separately.

What has to happen is the fluid has to boil for problems to occur. DOT 3 alone boils at 205C.DOT 3 with 3.7% water in it boils at 140C. Water can enter the brake fluid thru rubber hoses and seals.according to Wikipedia.

So what you need to do is test the brake fluid for water content. That would be the only meaningful criteria.

In other words if the three year old half full bottle of DOT 3 in my shed were tested and found to have less than 2% water in it I would be right.

If on the other hand it has 3.7 % or more I would be wrong, according to Wikipedia. And so would Valvoline be wrong to state on its label you can safely store brake fluid in an opened container.
__________________
The Sky Is Falling?

Nope its more like:

Look! The Emperor has no clothes!

Last edited by echo; October 22nd, 2016 at 02:35 PM.
echo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22nd, 2016   #16
Redfish
Donators
 
Redfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Prairieville, Louisiana
Posts: 2,770
Rep Power: 107 Redfish is a jewel in the roughRedfish is a jewel in the roughRedfish is a jewel in the rough
Default Re: Read What Valvoline Says About Storing Brake Fluid

I have seen what happens when the water in the brake fluid boils. It is not pretty.

Fortunately, the brake fluid was actually the hydraulic clutch fluid in a CVO Harley. At high altitude the motor runs hotter and the boiling point is lower. The clutch would no longer release. It took constant pumping to generate enough pressure to disengage the clutch. After two days of intermittent misery I found contaminated clutch fluid. A trip to O'Reilly's for a new UNFRIGGINOPENED bottle of brake fluid and something to drain the old crap into later and we were back on the road.

If it will not compress the clutch release mechanism my logic tells me that it will not compress brake pads either.

So again, you may do whatever the hell you like to your own bike. Since you don't even have a bike anymore, it is a moot point anyway.

I cannot see why you wish to convince other folks to do stupid things that could jeopardize their safety. You greet every new member with a "Safety Warning" about the SMC which is a part of The BRAKE SYSTEM. Then you tell them the quality of the brake fluid is not important.

That tells me you are either a liar, a hypocrite, or a dumbass. Or all 3.
__________________
Never run out of traction, ideas and real estate all at the same time.
Redfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2016   #17
chaissos
Donators
 
chaissos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Rouand'a'bout San Antonio
Posts: 2,035
Rep Power: 83 chaissos will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Read What Valvoline Says About Storing Brake Fluid

But wait...our bikes call for Dot4. From both reservoir caps: "Use only Dot4 brake fluid from a sealed container."

So you're not comparing apples to apples (again).

Once again, we're at (actually, we started at) the "Spouting crap" stage as in every Echo discussion.

You're not going to change anyone's mind, nor win any prize. Just give it a break (as opposed to giving it a "brake"), and stop preaching. I don't know anyone yet who's agreed with you - at least I've not seen anyone with your same viewpoint on the 3 motorcycle (and a couple car) forums I partake in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by echo View Post
According to Wikipedia once water gets into brake fluid it doesn't act like water anymore when heated. The water and brake fluid together act like a fluid different from either one separately.

What has to happen is the fluid has to boil for problems to occur. DOT 3 alone boils at 205C.DOT 3 with 3.7% water in it boils at 140C. Water can enter the brake fluid thru rubber hoses and seals.according to Wikipedia.

So what you need to do is test the brake fluid for water content. That would be the only meaningful criteria.

In other words if the three year old half full bottle of DOT 3 in my shed were tested and found to have less than 2% water in it I would be right.

If on the other hand it has 3.7 % or more I would be wrong, according to Wikipedia. And so would Valvoline be wrong to state on its label you can safely store brake fluid in an opened container.
And, I hate to say it, but while Wikipedia is interesting, it cannot be considered authoritative for any opinions on the site. Anyone (including you) can update the articles. So, we might be seeing updates from people who actually know what they're talking about, but we may also be seeing updates from people like you. For me, I'll stick to what the books (all of them), manufacturer websites (all of those, too), and maintenance guides (and yes, all of THOSE), tell me: New and unopened.

One final word: The first direction on that Valvoline can: Follow vehicle manufacturer's direction. Which, again, you've chosen to ignore.
__________________
Scott, 2012 "STutter", STOC# 8642
Go forth and be a force of awesome - do epic shit.

Last edited by chaissos; October 23rd, 2016 at 05:30 AM.
chaissos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2016   #18
Rob2m
Loquacious Member
 
Rob2m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hull UK
Posts: 751
Rep Power: 58 Rob2m will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Read What Valvoline Says About Storing Brake Fluid

Quote:
Originally Posted by echo View Post
Water can enter the brake fluid thru rubber hoses and seals.according to Wikipedia.
.
Doesn't it mention it can get in through the broken seal on a bottle too.
__________________
"Today’s ride will remind me forever how good it is to be a motorcyclist, how good it is to be alive and how much we need to live life, rather than watch it pass us by." Green VFR. 1970-2012
Rob2m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2016   #19
echo
The sky is falling...
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 3,584
Rep Power: 112 echo is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Read What Valvoline Says About Storing Brake Fluid

We need a brake fluid boiler.
__________________
The Sky Is Falling?

Nope its more like:

Look! The Emperor has no clothes!
echo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2016   #20
echo
The sky is falling...
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 3,584
Rep Power: 112 echo is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Read What Valvoline Says About Storing Brake Fluid

No such returns.

Make a suggestion.
__________________
The Sky Is Falling?

Nope its more like:

Look! The Emperor has no clothes!
echo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2011 ST1300.US.COM